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On Belief Systems and Learning

A debate from the Alextech e-mail discussion group on the validity
of the premises of the Alexander Technique

go to FIRST part      go to INDEX

Introduction:

This is a record of an e-mail debate that began on the AlexTech e-mail discussion list when I stepped into an existing discussion (on the Alexander Technique vs. other modalities) with a challenge as to the validity of the Alexander concepts and premises. The 'debate' raged for some weeks and then died out (almost) as it became clear that we could go no further with words. Those who had their own ideas would keep them and those who wished to know more could only do so by making their own experiments or experiencing my work first hand (some, though a very few, have already made arrangements to do so). When I decided to withdraw from the debate, there are still some outstanding questions in the final few postings but enough was enough and it was clear that nothing more would be gained by anyone writing even more words...

As you will see, the atmosphere of reaction and personal response is intense enough that many people did not want to express their true feelings to the open list. I received numerous messages sent to me privately by list members, mostly in support of me speaking up, with some saying that what I wrote helped them a lot. I'm sure that other participants in the debate also received many private messages too. Unfortunately, because of their private nature, these replies are not available to this debate.

Several of participants in this debate who sent in the more personally attacking postings were later thrown off the AlexTech list for their ad hominum attacks and refusal (or inability) to control their reactions. The same thing happened again later when they were allowed back on the list and eventually the Alextech list became a moderated list—that is, all subsequent messages passed through a moderator who could censor the more offensive ones.  So it goes...

This entire public AlexTech List debate is now permanently posted to the Direction Journal web site. The address there is http://www.directionjournal.com/alextech.

NOTE: this version of the debate that you are reading now includes newer material sent to me by people who have read this recently and who wished to contribute their own responses (see end of each page for a place to contribute if you want to). The Direction Journal version is limited to only the postings from the Alextech e-mail list.

I have included the 10 articles that precede my first posting so that you can make sense of what was going on when I came into it (feel free to skip these if you want), as well as several new sections with the responses that came to me long after the debate was over (these begin at section 13).

David Gorman
Provence, 1988

INDEX

The debate is split into a number of separate sections so that loading time is not too long. The 'articles' below are the contributions to this debate in chronological order (more of less) beginning with some lead-in messages before the debate began to set the scene. You can jump to any part of the debate by clicking on the appropriate link.

Introduction to the Debate

Section One
— Articles leading up to the debate and David's invitation to discuss the issue.

  1.  David Langstroth — Compatibility —  17 June, 1998
  2.  Robert Rickover —  re: Compatibility —  18 June, 1998
  3.  Kay Hooper —  Compatibility with forward and up —  18 June, 1998
  4.  David Langstroth — epistemology — 19 June, 1998
  5.  John Coffin — re: epistemology — 18 June, 1998
  6.  John Wynhausen — compatible epistemology — 19 June, 1998
  7.  Robert Rickover — re: epistemology — 19 June, 1998
  8.  Kay Hooper — re: epistemology — 19 June, 1998
  9.  John Coffin — re: More heat, less light — 19 June, 1998
 10. David Langstroth — A few responses — 20 June, 1998
 11. David Gorman — re: Epistomology et al. — 20 June, 1998

Section Two
— the initial responses to David's invitation

  1.  Peter Ruhrberg— epistomology, sensory appreciation — 19 June, 1998
  2.  Kay Hooper — re: epistomology et al. — 20 June, 1998
  3.  Nancy Lebovitz — re: epistomology et al. — 20 June, 1998
  4.  Franklin Serrano — please go on — 20 June, 1998
  5.  John Coffin — re: Feelings — 21 June, 1998
  6.  David Gorman — re: Epistomology et al. — 22 June, 1998
  7.  David Langstroth — To David Gorman — 22 June, 1998
  8.  David Gorman — re: To David Gorman — 22 June, 1998
  9.  John Coffin — re: epistomology et al — 22 June, 1998
 10.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: To David Gorman — 23 June, 1998
 11.  Patrick Snook — re: epistomology et al — 23 June 1998
 12.  Ian Kleiman — re: re: epistomology et al — 23 June 1998
 13.  Peter Ruhrberg — To Patrick Snook, FMA quote belief? — 23 June 1998
 14.  Peter Ruhrberg — epistomology, sensory appreciation — 23 June 1998

Section Three
— The article by David Gorman which sparked the debate

  1.  David Gorman — On Belief Systems and Learning — 25 June 1998

Section Four
— The debate begins...

  1.  John Coffin — re: On Belief Systems and Learning, part 3 of 3 — 26 June 1998
  2.  Kay Hooper — Gorman's Essay — 26 June 1998
  3.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: re: On Belief Systems and Learning — 27 June 1998
  4.  David Langstroth — re: On Belief Systems and Learning — 27 June 1998
  5.. John Coffin — re: On Belief Systems and Learning — 27 June 1998
  6.  Nina Aledort — re: On Belief Systems and Learning — 27 June 1998
  7.  John Coffin — re: brain dead cultural relativists — 28 June 1998
  8.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: On Belief Systems and Learning — 28 June 1998

Section Five
— and continues...

  1.  David Gorman — replies to replies to "On Belief..." — 28 June 1998
  2.  Peter Ruhrberg — David Gorman, belief systems, questions and consistency — 29 June 1998
  3.  John Coffin — re: More on Gorman essay — 29 June 1998
  4.  David Gorman — Reply to John Coffin — 01 July 1998

Section Six
— and continues...

  1.  Robert Rickover — re: re: More on Gorman essay — 30 June 1998
  2.  John Coffin — re: More on Gorman essay — 30 June 1998
  3.  David Langstroth — A final thought on belief systems — 30 June 998
  4.  John Wynhausen — D.G. ‘s sonata in 3 parts — 30 June 1998
  5.  Jim Whiteside — David’s Teaching Technique — 01 July 1998
  6.  David Gorman — re: David’s Teaching Technique — 02 July 1998
  7.  Patrick Snook — re: David Gorman, belief systems, questions and consistency — 01 July 1998
  8.  Mike Blayney — On belief systems and learning — 01 July 1998
  9.  John Coffin — re: On belief systems and learning — 01 July 1998
 10.  David Gorman — reply to Mike Blayney and John Coffin — 01 July 1998
 11.  Kirk McElhearn — re: David’s Teaching Technique — 01 July 1998
 12.  David Gorman — reply to Kirk McElhearn — 02 July 1998

Section Seven
— and continues...

  1.  Tom Vasiliades — re: epistemology, David Gorman, beliefs, etc. — 01 July 1998
  2.  David Langstroth —  reply to Thomas Vasiliades — 02 July 1998
  3.  John Coffin — re: Dewey quote and Primary Control — 01 July 1998
  4.  John Coffin — re: Reply to Reply to John Coffin — 01 July 1998
  5.  Kirk McElhearn — re: Reply to Reply to John Coffin — 02 July 1998
  6.  John Coffin — re: Reply to Reply to John Coffin — 02 July 1998
  7.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: David Gorman — experiences in lessons — 02 July 1998
  8.  Rajal Cohen — re: David Gorman — experiences in lessons — 03 July 1998
  9.  John Coffin — re: reply to Mike Blayney and John Coffin — 03 July 1998
 10.  David Gorman — re: reply to Mike Blayney and John Coffin — 03 July 1998

Section Eight
— and continues...

  1.  John Coffin — re: reply to Mike Blayney and John Coffin — 03 July 1998
  2.  David Gorman — re: reply to Mike Blayney and John Coffin — 04 July 1998
  3.  Ann Penistan — replies to replies on Mr. Gorman's article — 02 July 1998
  4.  David Gorman — Beliefs, etc: reply to Peter Ruhrberg — 04 July 1998
  5.  John Coffin — re: replies to replies on Mr. Gorman's article — 03 July 1998
  6.  David Gorman — final reply to John Coffin’s argument — 04 July 1998
  7.  Peter Ruhrberg — replies to replies etc. on Mr. Gorman's article — 04 July 1998
  8.  David Gorman — replies to replies etc. on Mr. Gorman's article — 05 July 1998
  9.  Alex Leith — re: David Gorman — experiences in lessons — 05 July 1998
 10.  Alex Leith — Objective Reality — 04 July 1998
 11.  John Coffin — re: final exercise in futility — 04 July 1998

Section Nine
— and continues...

  1.  Rajal Cohen — re: final exercise in futility — 05 July 1998
  2.  Carol McCullough — The Elegance of the Alexaner Technique — 01 July 1998
  3.  David Langstroth —  re: The Elegance of the Alexander Technique — 03 July 1998
  4.  David Langstroth — The Intellectual Shell Game — 03 July 1998
  5.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: The Intellectual Shell Game — 03 July 1998
  6.  Rajal Cohen — all this stuff — 05 July 1998
  7.  David Gorman — re: all this stuff (Rajal Cohen) — 05 July 1998
  8.  Urban Larsson — hello everybody —  04 July 1998
  9.  Carol McCullough — The Alexander Technique and the Gorman Technique — 01 July 1998
 10.  David Langstroth — re: The Alexander Technique and the Gorman Technique — 06 July 1998
 11.  David Gorman — The Alexander Technique and the Gorman Technique  —  06 July 1998

Section Ten
— and continues...

  1.  Brian McCullough — teaching violinists and "ironists" — 05 July 1998
  2.  David Langstroth — re: teaching violinists and "ironists" — 06 July 1998
  3.  Matt Stapleton — re: The Alexander Technique and the Gorman Technique — 06 July 1998
  4.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: reply to reply etc. to David Gorman, v. 2 — 05 July 1998
  5.  Urban Larsson — question to Peter Ruhrberg — 05 July 1998
  6.  Peter Ruhrberg — re: Urban Larsson's question/comment — 07 July 1998
  7.  David Langstroth — Judging our success or failure — 07 July 1998
  8.  David Gorman — re: Judging our success or failure — 07 July 1998

Section Eleven
— David bows out (mostly) and a few others carry on...

  1.  John Coffin — SON of final exercise in futility — 07 July 1998
  2.  Tom Koch — re: On Belief Systems and Learning, part 3 of 3 — 07 July 1998
  3.  David Gorman — Reply to Tom Koch — 08 July 1998
  4.  David Langstroth — inhibiting and directing — 07 July 1998
  5.  Brian McCullough — inhibiting and directing — 07 July 1998
  6.  Urban Larsson — Reply Peter Ruhrbergs reply to Urban — 07 July 1998
  7.  Linda.Birmingham — Thanks everyone and DG's work. — 09 July 1998
  8.  Tom Vasiliades — re: reality, judging our success or failure, the Gorman Technique
           — 12 July 1998

Section Twelve
— Last messages from the original debate...

  1.  Stacy Gehman — Reflections on recent postings — 12 July 1998
  2.  Stacy Gehman — Excerpt from "Exploring an Act of Will" — 12 July 1998

Section Thirteen
— A new dialogue, some time later...

  1.  Nicholas Brockbank — Contribution — 10 October 1998
  2.  David Gorman — re: Contribution — 10 October 1998
  3.  Nicholas Brockbank — Contribution — 11 October 1998
  4.  David Gorman — re: Contribution from Nicholas Brockbank — 02 November 1998
  5.  Nicholas Brockbank — Learning Methods — 14 November 1998
  6.  David Gorman — re: Learning Methods — 10 December 1998
  7.  Nicholas Brockbank — Learning Methods — 10 December 1998
  8.  David Gorman — re: Learning Methods — 10 December 1998
  9.  Nicholas Brockbank — Learning Methods — 12 December 1998

Section Fourteen
— Continuing dialogues...

 1.  Joseph Boland — AT, etc. — 14 June 2001

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