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On Belief Systems and Learning

A debate from the Alextech e-mail discussion group on the validity
of the premises of the Alexander Technique

Part 11

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All contributions are copyright by their authors. Note that the e-mail addresses of the participants were valid at the time of the debate but may not be valid any longer.


Section Eleven
— David bows out (mostly) and a few others carry on...

  1.  John Coffin — SON of final exercise in futility — July 7/98
  2.  Tom Koch — re: On Belief Systems and Learning, part 3 of 3 — July 7/98
  3.  David Gorman — Reply to Tom Koch — July 8/98
  4.  David Langstroth — inhibiting and directing — July 7/98
  5.  Brian McCullough — inhibiting and directing — July 7/98
  6.  Urban Larsson — Reply Peter Ruhrbergs reply to Urban — July 7/98
  7.  Linda.Birmingham — Thanks everyone and DG's work. — July 9/98
  8.  Tom Vasiliades — re: reality, judging our success or failure, the Gorman Technique
           — July 12/98


Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:36:49 EDT
From: JohnC10303@aol.com
To: 100653.2057@compuserve.com, alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
Subject: SON of final exercise in futility

Hello list:

It appears we are to have more 'final' farewells from David Gorman than Luisa Tetrazzini.

"I do recognize that the nature of what I am saying is explosive"

Only your claims to innovation and the formation of a new sect are explosive; not the practical, teaching aspects of your posts.

"But what I mean is not that their senses are debauched or unreliable, but that they are mis-appreciating or mis-interpreting what they are sensing. That is, that they have unreliable 'reality' appreciation--faulty belief systems, or untrue belief systems, or belief systems that do not match what actually happens."

This is circular reasoning. They misinterpret reality as registered by their senses because of their faulty belief systems-their innacurate interpretations cause them to 'experience reality' in a false manner - their experience is their only guide in forming belief systems.

"But this does not tell you precisely what the student is thinking, or what they are feeling from their point of view, or what their belief system is. That you can ONLY get at through asking them."

Asking them? IF the pupil can understand the question. IF the pupil can form an answer on a subject he may never have thought about before. IF the pupil can perfectly express his thoughts. IF you can understand what the pupil means. Of course it is worth while to ask the pupil, and look at the pupil, and listen with your hands. But to assume that you can EVER know "precisely what the student is thinking, or what they are feeling from their point of view, or what their belief system is" is hubris.

"In my experience what an Alexander teacher does not usually do is to notice the student's pulling down or whatever, and then find out what the student thought they were up to and work with that, not the pulling down..."

More's the pity, because that is what FM indicated we should be doing.

"When the faulty beliefs systems are exposed and become more accurate, these mechanics change in a totally coordinated and integrated way all by themselves."

And how are they exposed, how do they become more accurate? By telling the pupil? Some new experience must be involved.

"It is the teacher's use and skill the pupil experiences rather than their own"

This is one of the most dangerous misconceptions Alexander teachers fall into. When, for example, the pupil rises from the chair in a manner contrary to his old conception of the act, HE has performed a NEW act produced by HIS OWN muscles acting along new lines. IT IS THE PUPIL'S DIRECTION WHICH CAUSES THE CHANGE, NOT THE TEACHER'S. There is a great danger that the pupil or the teacher may assume that the change was caused by some magical property of the teacher's hands. Skilled teaching should steer the pupil away from this illusion as smoothly as possible.

"I will certainly do my best to be as aware of everyone's sensibilities. I'm not sure how much I can manage to say what i have to say any different because it is what it is and I cannot make that any easier to swallow than it is..."

It is good to hear neglected aspects of the Technique brought to the attention of the list. My sensibilities can handle it just fine thank you. As to 'what it is' please see the quotes I have appended below.

Some precursors of LearningMethodsŪ

MSI "Conscious Control"

In this case my first endeavour must be directed to keeping in abeyance, by the power of inhibition, all the mental associations connected with the ideas of speaking, and to eradicating all erroneous, preconceived ideas concerning the things X imagines he can or cannot do, . . .

MSI Part II ch. 3 "The Processes of Conscious Guidance and Control"

In the performance of any muscular action by conscious guidance control there are four essential stages:

1. The conception of the movement required:

2. The inhibition of erroneous preconceived ideas which subconsciously suggest the manner in which the movement or series of movements should be performed;

3. The new and conscious mental orders which will set in motion the muscular mechanism essential to the correct performance of the action:

4. The movements (contractions and expansions) of the muscles which carry out the mental orders.

MSI "Habits of Thought and Body"

. . . he must discover, or find someone who can discover for him, what his defects are in the uses indicated. When this has been done he must proceed to inhibit the guiding sensations which cause him to use the mechanism imperfectly; …

Ask a friend to lift a chair or any other object . . . You will see at once that your friend will approach the task with a definite preconception as to the amount of physical tension necessary. His mind is exclusively occupied with the question of his own myscular effort, instead of with the purpose in front of him …

CCC Part II ch. 2 "Incorrect Conception"

In the matter of conception, the first step is to convince the pupil that his present misdirected activities are the result of incorrect conception and of imperfect sensory appreciation (feeling).

The teacher experienced in the work of re-education can diagnose at once, by the expression and use of the pupil's eyes, the degree of influence upon him of such conceptions …

CCC part II ch. 3 "Imperfect Sensory Appreciation"

The teacher therefore asks him to perform:

1. an inhibitory act, by inhibiting "his way" of taking breath-in other words, by preventing or holding in check, in connection with the act, the wrong subconscious guidance and direction, which constitutes the bad habit he has formed when taking breath ….

2. a volitionary act, by giving himself certain orders ….

Love and Service
John Coffin


Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:37:09 +0200
From: "Tom Koch" Alextech@direct.A2000.nl
To: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: On Belief Systems and Learning, part 3 of 3

Hello List and David Gorman --

I must agree with the assessment of others that David has managed to extract some of Alexander's ideas and call them his own. Other than the name of David's "new" technique, I have found absolutely nothing new in David's description of his work. I was always taught that the important thing in the AT work is to change my intentions, not my tensions. Is this not what David is describing?

I trained from 1984-1987 at ACAT-NY, with Barbara Kent, Judy Leibowitz, Debbie Caplan, Pamela Anderson, Sarnie Ogus, Pearl Ausubel, as well as many others. Perhaps their training program is quite different from what others have experienced, but I remember the question was always "What are you thinking", and not "What are you doing". Is this not what David is describing?

In my own teaching, I might very well tell a student that he shortened and narrowed as he moved into the chair. But I will also immediately ask, "What were you thinking?" I might point out that the student demonstrated his belief that he must make some effort to perform a certain action, and that this belief is, in Alexander's own words, "nothing but a set of tension patterns." Is this not what David is describing?

I also detect a problem in David's distinction between "senses" and "sensory appreciation". If we assume, as David suggests, that the "senses" are accurate but the "student's perception of those senses" is inaccurate, we are then back at a Cartesian duality of mind vs. body, but this time with a poorly-functioning ghost in a well-functioning machine. That at least might be considered new, as it is usually assumed that the ghost is "good" and the machine unruly.

I must confess that I question David's motivations in claiming so many of Alexander's ideas and methods as his own invention. I met David very briefly once, and not in the context of the Alexander Technique, so I cannot say that I have any great insight into the man. However, I am familiar with his involvement in Alexander Technique International, which seems a haven for many who, for whatever reasons, are not part of the Affiliated Societies. His name still appears as the web-master for the ATI website. His name still appears on the list of Sponsoring Members, who alone are "qualified" to grant teacher status to would-be members (even if the teacher is certified by an Affiliated Society). The last time I checked, the email address alextech@compuserve.com was still registered to David. This all strikes me as strange at best, and hypocritical at worst, for someone who is seeking to market his own stripped-down version of the Alexander Technique and who no longer calls himself an Alexander teacher. In fact, this all strikes me as another step in what appears to be David's long history of seeing himself as a rebel or outsider in the Alexander community.

Tom Koch, Alextech@direct.a2000.nl


Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:07:42 -0400
From: David Gorman 100653.2057@compuserve.com
Cc: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
Subject: Reply to Tom Koch

Tom and List,

Tom Koch wrote on July 7, 1998:
"However, I am familiar with his involvement in Alexander Technique International... ...His name still appears as the web-master for the ATI website... ...The last time I checked, the email address 100653.2057@compuserve.com was still registered to David. This all strikes me as strange at best, and hypocritical at worst, for someone who is seeking to market his own stripped-down version of the Alexander Technique and who no longer calls himself an Alexander teacher."

Well, Tom I must say that I am surprised by your chain of assumptions about me. If you had thought to ask me personally about what was happening with my involvements with ATI and my e-mail address rather than so publicly jumping to conclusions, I would have been happy to explain why I still have these connections AND what I have been doing to end them.

I no longer teach the Alexander Technique but I am still on the Executive Board of ATI serving out the remainder of my 2-year term due to end in November. I have already given my notice that I do not wish to seek re-election (for obvious reasons) and the call for nominations went out to ATI members quite a while ago. Rather than resign immediately, which I have wanted to do several times, I have been persuaded and have been happy to fulfil for the remaining several months the responsibilities I took on when I was elected 2 years ago.

This also goes for the ATI web site where I have given notice near the start of this year that I will not continue after November. ATI is currently seeking a replacement. I would have changed my e-mail name long ago, but the old ATI web site was hosted on my personal Compuserve web space: (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/alextech). Even though I have set up a new web domain for ATI (on www.ati-net.com) back in April so that I could rename the address, we agreed to leave the old site up for 6 months so that people could still find ATI who did not know the new address. This necessitates me keeping this address until the period is up. Then, believe me, I shall be more than happy to re-name it to something more appropriate.

Koch also wrote:
"However, I am familiar with his involvement in Alexander Technique International, which seems a haven for many who, for whatever reasons, are not part of the Affiliated Societies. His name still appears as the web-master for the ATI website. His name still appears on the list of Sponsoring Members, who alone are "qualified" to grant teacher status to would-be members (even if the teacher is certified by an Affiliated Society). "

Quite a few members of this list are also members of ATI. Quite a few members of the 'affiliated societies' are also members of ATI. I certainly agree with you that many of them have joined ATI because it seems like a haven for them from some of the experiences they have had at the 'hands' of those in the affiliated societies.

You have been thoroughly misinformed though about the nature of the Sponsoring Members of ATI. The ATI membership has voted to recognize the certifications of all of the affiliated societies. This means that any teacher certificated by any of the affiliated societies can join ATI as a Teaching Member simply by showing their certificate. They do not gain an ATI teaching certificate, but of course they do not need one since they already have one from their original society. The ATI Sponsorship process is only for those who wish to obtain an ATI Teaching Certificate.

I have (so far) remained as a Sponsoring Member because there are still some people training in other Alexander teacher trainings which I have visited and who I have worked with since they began their training. These people have requested that I be one of their Sponsors when they graduate (which is soon for all of them). While I no longer teach the Alexander Technique, I have not 'forgotten' what I know, nor I have I lost the ability to know when someone is a competent teacher. I feel that I can still do this assessment as well as I could before.

I have made it clear to some others who have asked me that I am not going to take on Sponsorship for any people who I have not already been following their progress for some time, so that I can also end this responsibility as soon as possible.

"In fact, this all strikes me as another step in what appears to be David's long history of seeing himself as a rebel or outsider in the Alexander community."

Do you mean the kind of rebel who was instrumental in forming NASTAT and was the chairman of the steering committee who started it? Do you mean the kind of outsider who dreamed up the idea of the affiliated societies in the first place and wrote the bylaws that made them happen? Do you mean the kind of rebel who wrote the certification and membership mechanisms for ATI? If so, then you've certainly got me pegged !

"I must agree with the assessment of others that David has managed to extract some of Alexander's ideas and call them his own. Other than the name of David's "new" technique, I have found absolutely nothing new in David's description of his work... ...I must confess that I question David's motivations in claiming so many of Alexander's ideas and methods as his own invention."

Well, it seems hard to get anywhere on this one. Perhaps I will take another tack.

We have an interesting situation here. It sounds like a bunch of you are happy to accept that I am teaching the Alexander Technique without even seeing me work, while several years ago, I ran into another bunch of teachers who already seemed to consider that I was not teaching the Alexander Technique and they had also not seen me teach. Those who had seen me teach and worked with me were saying how very different it was from their understanding of the work and were urging me to change the name and get out of the hassles from those who didn't like what I was doing.

In the end, of course, it is my decision and my perception as to what I see as the Alexander work and how different I see what I am doing. It is a constant phenomenon that people who have had Alexander lessons (from all over the world) come and say that this is very different. Equally it is constant that those who have worked with me recently and who then go for Alexander lessons describe the huge difference. You put two and two together.

If the day comes when enough people with Alexander experience come to see what I am doing and most of them say, "yup, that's the Alexander technique", then maybe there'll be no need for a different name. When enough people say that there's no need for any hands-on, no need for movements like sitting and standing, no need for tables or changing any experiences at all, no need to address what is happening physically in the head-neck-back, then I'll agree with Tom and John and all of you--I was always doing the Alexander Technique. But boy, will it have changed!

I think that I have gone with this thread about as far as I can go. I have little more to say without repeating myself. There is nothing more that will prove or disprove anything without meeting any of you in person and sharing experiences as some of you have already proposed.

Nevertheless, if any of you feel differently, I shall be happy to communicate with anyone who sends me a private e-mail about my work or any questions, but I can't see as we are going to get any further with this debate without that next step. I could be wrong, but I'll leave the rest of you to decide for yourselves.

warmly,
David


Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:21:33 +0100
To: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
From: David Langstroth david@alexandertec.u-net.com
Subject: inhibiting and directing

Dear everybody,

I have been asked, "How does a student know when they are inhibiting and directing correctly?" The truth is, initially they don't. That is why they come for lessons and that is the skill that they are taught. Through good teaching they learn not to confuse thinking and feeling. We get better and better at it as we learn. Gradually we acquire the skill to change our own conditions.

Best Wishes,
David Langstroth


Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:35:25 -0500 (CDT)
To: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
From: poised@ix.netcom.com (McCullough)
Subject: inhibiting and directing

List,

"How... does a pupil know when they "have inhibited and directed correctly?"

A student "inhibits and directs correctly" at all times. If the student is sticking to principle, they ARE doing it correctly. The student shouldn't judge whether they are doing it "correctly" or not. Inhibiting and directing (i.e., the Alexander Technique) is a skill; and as with all skills, the skill keeps evolving - we never "arrive".

Brian McCullough, Teacher of the Alexander Technique, Minneapolis, Minnesota USA


Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:42:48 +0200
From: "Urban Larsson" urban.larsson@nacka.mail.telia.com
To: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
Subject: Reply Peter Ruhrbergs reply to Urban

Thank you for the clarification. It certainly helped me to understand a little more about where you are at in your "Alexander" investigations. I had another few questions, but they will have to wait, because we are going away on holiday tomorrow.

best wishes,
Urban


Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:10:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Linda.Birmingham@brunel.ac.uk
To: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
Subject: Thanks everyone and DG's work.

Dear all,

I'm am really sad that I haven't had time to follow all these threads. The postings have all been very deep and just reading and contemplating one takes more time than I have available at the moment.

I am so grateful to you all for sharing your experiences with this list, the little I have had time to read has set my own thinking going. Education indeed.

As far as David's work is concerned, it is great that he has shared it with us.

I have been to one day of David's training course and felt with my debauched feelings and reasoned (with my probably debauched reasoning ;-) that he has a lot to offer. I did question at the time whether it should still be called the Alexander technique and David agreed at the time that it probably shouldn't.

I am well known not to swallow all the teachings I am fed and David responded to my questioning and not going along with all his statements in a very positive and explorational way. He is an excellent teacher and is teaching his findings.

Many thanks again for all your exquisite postings.
Linda.


Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:08:36 EDT
From: tvasiliades@juno.com (THOMAS VASILIADES)
To: alextech@pop.life.uiuc.edu
Subject: RE: reality, judging our success or failure, the Gorman Tech

Dear Nina, David G, David L., and the list,

On July 6, NIna Aledort wrote:
"(Tom V.--there are significant differences in how children and adults learn due to development of the brain through the experience of learning, age, baggage etc. although they may look similar externally)"

Vygotsky discovered that children learn through the process of performed activity ( I cited this in July 1 posting on children learning to speak). Their learning (performing as a speaker) preceded their human development (developing into a speaker). Vygotsky discoveries were in human development not simply child development. Nina, it seems to me the reasons you gave for the differences in how children and adults learn doesn't explain how come we cannot perform in adulthood as we did when we were children. It is my understanding that nothing happens to us as we become adults that makes us no longer capable of performance. I think we don't perform in adulthood but not due to incapability. Adult actors perform all the time.

In the performatory approach I have mentioned my students and I create an environment ( a zpd - zone for proximal development as Vygotsky called it) for learning and development. It is through the process of performed activity that adults can reinitiate development. To create new ways of living life.

------------------------------------

Questions for David Gorman on July 6 you wrote:
"It was this pedagogy and the belief systems it implies that I am looking at here. These very teaching techniques only make sense to do from the context of a way of seeing things. When we include the correlation between what is happening in the person's 'use' (in the Alexander sense) and what they are thinking/feeling/doing (from their own point of view), then the way of seeing things CAN change hugely."

I have a question about the correlation you are writing about? Are you saying that there is a specific movement that correlates to what someone is thinking/feeling/doing? For example: If someone is sad are you noticing a collapse in the sternum? are you saying a collapse will always happen when she/he is sad? Can you please clarify?

"It is the teacher's use and skill the pupil experiences rather than their own--this is why a pupil has such different experiences from teachers trained in different ways. What they are experiencing is NOT what 'good use' is like, the pupil is experiencing what it feels like to have a skilled human being devote their entire attention to them with a particular belief system driving it. In other words, they are experiencing the RELATIONSHIP with the teacher. On the other hand, when someone makes the experiment of changing the actions they normally do because of their belief system, they usually feel very different. But it is a difference that cannot possibly be from the physical skill of the teacher since no teacher has been touching them nor in any way proposing a better physical/functional coordination."

Here I think the relationship with the teacher can change the student's belief system. In my opinion, the art of teaching is creating conditions so that students can learn and develop. Even if the teacher does not put hands on during a lesson a students beliefs and use can change. Alexander himself proved that with his discoveries, he didn't have hands on. At this point I'm not advocating hands on or no hands on during a lesson although in my lessons and classes I am putting hands on less. In my lessons I aim to have the student take a look at their beliefs in how they do things. Our relationship, what we do together, is inseperable from how the student does explores this.

------------------------------------------

On July 7 David Langstroth wrote:
"In all the plans for self-improvement, The Alexander Technique is unique in having an entirely rational criteria for judgement. If you have inhibited and directed correctly then you can judge that you have successfully completed a constructive act towards your self-improvement, no matter what it feels like."

It doesn't seem possible that there can be a rational criteria for judgement of performed human activity. There are a myriad of processes, experiences going on with the teacher and the student. To say that someone is inhibiting and directing (if one is working that way)correctly or incorrectly without including the relationship of the teacher/student leaves out a big part of what would go into making a judgement(if one wanted to). As I've stated in a previous post neither the student or the teacher have the necessary distance to have rational criteria for what I am assuming is ('rational') judgement.

------------------------------------------

One of the things I find interesting in the work David Gorman has written about is the questioning of students' beliefs, assumption, concepts, whatever you want to call them. I have mentioned in a previous posting my disagreement with his pursuing causality. However, I do find David's going with the beliefs the student is a significant change from Alexander's teaching approach. My understanding of FM's teaching is that the students are going wrong and he is setting them right (I have a disagreement with this duality). As I read it David G. is engaging the beliefs of the student and working with those beliefs. Over the years, I have found in my teaching that the asking of questions can spur the student to think about her/his assumptions and presuppositions. The performance of philosophy, the asking big questions about little things can often open up doors for the student to grow and develop beyond the captivity of their beliefs. One influence on my teaching is Ludwig Wittgentstein, the Austrian philosopher of this. Wittgenstein belived that how we use and understand language (especially language about subjective experiences such as feelings, thoughts, and beliefs) is a source of our pathology. His philosophical undertaking was striving to free us from the mental muddles we get into because we are trying to explain things that do not need explaining. I find that it is necessary to understand language and meaning-not as corresponding to reality, not as "being about " anything, but as human social activity. The student and I are continually making meaning. In the process the students learn how their beliefs of 'use' don't have to be set in stone. They can continually change.

All the best,
Tom Vasiliades


Continued in PART 12...

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